Who knew that dog poop could contribute to water pollution? That's the topic of our conversation with NEORSD Asset Analyst Christina Toth and Biologist Morgan Koelliker. Christina's dog, Esri, serves as the mascot of the Sewer District's Pick Up Poop! (P.U.P.) program, and Morgan explains how the bacteria in dog waste is especially hazardous for humans and other dogs. Join us as we discuss the significance of responsible pet ownership and its profound impact on water quality in densely populated areas like Cleveland.
Who knew that dog poop could contribute to water pollution? That's the topic of our conversation with NEORSD Asset Analyst Christina Toth and Biologist Morgan Koelliker. Christina's dog, Esri, serves as the mascot of the Sewer District's Pick Up Poop! (P.U.P.) program, and Morgan explains how the bacteria in dog waste is especially hazardous for humans and other dogs. Join us as we discuss the significance of responsible pet ownership and its profound impact on water quality in densely populated areas like Cleveland.
The opinions expressed on this podcast are not necessarily those of the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District or its employees. For more information about the Sewer District and its projects and programs, visit neorsdorg. The Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District presents Clean Water Works, a podcast that explores water, sewer and stormwater issues that affect you and your community. Learn about the people, projects and programs that are protecting your health and the environment here in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio.
Speaker 2:Are dogs, the best pets?
Speaker 3:I think the scientific answer is yes.
Speaker 2:Science has proven that dogs are the best.
Speaker 3:Based on the studies that I did not look up before I came in here.
Speaker 2:Based on the Reddit pages.
Speaker 3:Chinchillas are grumpy.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And cats are temperamental, so All right.
Speaker 2:Well, this is a real exciting podcast topic. Today we're going to be talking about all things doggo, dogs, Puppers and associated pet waste picking up after your dog, the pup program here at the sewer district, the pick up poop program, which we started in 2009, kind of an awareness campaign to get people to understand the importance of picking up pet waste. We are joined by Christina Toth, who is an asset analyst in the swim department here stormwater inspection and maintenance, and we also have Morgan Kelliker from our analytical services department to talk a little about the science of pet waste bacteria and why it's so important to pick it up, why it's bad if it's left on the ground and enters the waterways. So, Donna, how are you?
Speaker 3:I'm good. Yeah, I'm good. I'm excited to talk about this topic because dogs and you're a dog person. I'm a dog person. I have a doggo.
Speaker 3:Have you always had a dog, Not since birth, but probably since like age 10. I've had a dog. My first dog's name was Bob. He was a good. He was a good one. He was good when he was a good one. He was a good one. He was a lab mix. He was about 9 million pounds and he was very sweet. And then now I have a dog named Grizz Grizzly.
Speaker 2:Did you ask your parents for a dog or did they surprise you?
Speaker 3:No great question. We were not expecting a dog, but we went to a garage sale and Bob was among a litter of puppies that were being sold at this garage sale not your typical garage sale item, but he was in need of a home and I needed him, and my mom gave in rather quickly, yeah, so he was a sweetie and ever since then you've had dogs or you just yeah pretty much yeah, except for in college, because you know responsibility and it's hard being in college and owning a thing you have to take care of.
Speaker 2:I hear you, Christina? Have you always had dogs?
Speaker 4:Yep, my family always had dogs ever since I was little. There was a little bit of a break, but then I think I was probably in fifth grade when we were able to convince my parents to get a another dog after, like, their first dog as a couple passed away. Okay, he had a little break, but her name was Oreo Oreo dog names are great.
Speaker 3:You have a dog, mike.
Speaker 2:I have a dog, coco. Coco, oreo and then Bob right and I didn't grow up with dogs.
Speaker 5:At all.
Speaker 2:Had a goldfish. That doesn't count. Had a right, it's not.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 2:No, it's like the idea of a pet. Mm-hmm, and we had a bird when it was a little budgie, uh-huh, budgie, parakeet Cute. His name was Fluffy, if I recall.
Speaker 3:Fluffy. Yeah, that's kind of an interesting bird name.
Speaker 2:Never a dog until about a decade ago. First dog my wife wanted a dog and the kids wanted a dog, so I went along with it, and now I'm a dog person.
Speaker 4:Never turning back, morgan, do you have?
Speaker 5:a dog? I don't have a dog. I've actually never owned a dog, what I know but I'm getting married next Friday. Oh my God, Congratulations. Yeah, that's so exciting.
Speaker 4:Thank you.
Speaker 5:Thank you. And he has a dog, so I will be adopting Murdoch, the Corgi Terrier mix. Oh my gosh, so cute.
Speaker 4:Oh, my dog's a.
Speaker 2:Corgi mix too.
Speaker 4:Oh, oh, is he really?
Speaker 2:Corgi Shepherd or Corgi, yeah, like a corgi shepherd mix.
Speaker 5:Does your dog chase rabbits too?
Speaker 4:Yes, my dog has dismembered rabbits, mine too, unfortunately.
Speaker 2:It was probably the most horrifying sight. Well, we don't have to get into the details of how gory it was the backyard that day, but she likes to hunt, you know that's what they're, dogs, right? Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 3:So, uh, for those of you maybe who think you're unfamiliar with our pup program, you probably aren't as unfamiliar as you think.
Speaker 2:We have yard signs everywhere you've seen them throughout the city.
Speaker 3:Sometimes they're green. Those are the old ones.
Speaker 2:The OG signs the.
Speaker 3:OG signs Got a little terrier on them. And then the new ones are the blue signs. They say pick up poop, and it has the sewer district logo and it has another dog on it. And this dog came to be because of our good friend Christina here. Do you want to talk through how that happened?
Speaker 4:Sure, so the district was going through a whole rebranding and I think they were looking to update those pup signs and they had the internal contest where employees could submit photos for their dog and then vote on it. And I made sure I was voting every single day. Even though I was in Colorado with limited phone service, I was online every day voting and making sure everyone else was voting. That's hilarious.
Speaker 2:Voting for your own entry. Yes, so you had your thumb on the scales kind of. Yeah, a little bit.
Speaker 4:What are you supposed to do in that situation? It's true.
Speaker 3:You have to really advocate for the ones you love.
Speaker 2:So I think you're doing your due diligence there, you knew you had the most handsome dog.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, she's beautiful. Yeah, Well, she can be handsome.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You can do anything these days, and so now your dog is pretty much everywhere in many, many lawns. I see Esri and your dog's name is Esri. Can you tell us what that means?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so when we first adopted her, we were trying to think of names, throwing around ideas and nothing was really sticking. And I threw out the name Esri and we both thought it was super cute and unique and it actually is relative to my work, so it came from Esri, the company that makes GIS software, which is what we use here at the district to map all of our assets, so culverts, crossings, tunnels for the wastewater treatment plants, all of that.
Speaker 2:So asset management is your line of work here at the district, so you use that software.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so you use that software. Yeah, so every day our GIS is tied into NextGen. And then that NextGen software is what is used to assign work orders to our inspection and maintenance crew so they can go out and look at the different assets, write up their reports and provide recommendations on follow-ups and maintenance if it's needed.
Speaker 3:Okay, so if I get a call from Olmstead Township and they say, hey, there's a blockage in this one stream and we determine that it's a regional stormwater asset, then that would flow through you.
Speaker 4:Then so I'll get notified to assign that case, will go out and look at that blockage and come back and report on if it needs to be removed or maybe it's okay to leave if it's not causing any issues. And over time you can kind of see those trends of where blockages are maybe more common.
Speaker 2:How many assets do we have? Stormwater assets?
Speaker 4:A bajillion Ooh.
Speaker 2:Thousands.
Speaker 4:It's over 1,000 active assets that we inspect on the regional stormwater system, so that includes the streams, culverts, crossings, basins and transportation assets and things like that. Wow.
Speaker 2:So is your job like being a dispatcher? Like seeing what jobs are coming up and assigning them to people to take care?
Speaker 4:of Basically. Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 2:So your dog, esri, is the face of, or the snout of, our pickup poop program here at the sewer district, which we started again in 2009 as an awareness campaign. Graham here at the sewer district, which we started again in 2009 as an awareness campaign, and we thought of it as a good way to give people something tangible that they can relate to and show how they have an impact on water quality in their own daily lives right, Right.
Speaker 3:And water quality is one of the three main tenants of our regional stormwater management program reduction of flooding, erosion, erosion and water quality. So that's where that all gets tied back in so owning dogs for the majority of your lives?
Speaker 2:have you always picked up after your dogs? Was that something that was that you just took for granted? That's what you do, or?
Speaker 3:yeah, growing up in the city, you're very likely to get yelled at if you don't pick up after your dog because, like, everyone's yard is what you're walking past like while you're on the sidewalk, and so, being a rule follower, yeah, definitely, have always had bags. I think probably the only times when I did not pick up is if, like I, you know, put my keys in my pocket and the bag blew away, like that kind of situation. As if I put my keys in my pocket and the bag blew away, that kind of situation. But picking up after the dog was always definitely something my mom was very serious about, so I don't know what about you, Christina.
Speaker 4:Yeah same. I've always been, I guess, a rule follower and it just seemed like the right thing to do. So it just seems wrong to leave your dog's waste on somebody else's property or on a trail and things like that.
Speaker 3:So I've always picked it up, morgan, can you tell us a little bit about why pet waste is bad for the environment or what impacts it could have so?
Speaker 5:everything that I'm coming from is going to be mostly bacterial, with the addition of anyone who thinks that dog poop is fertilizer is wrong. Dog poop is actually too acidic to be effective. Manure, because of their high protein diets are familiar with in terms of animal byproduct, comes from grass-fed or vegetation-fed animals, and so their gut microbiome is totally different. So, yeah, it's not good fertilizer, in case that's news to anyone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so what are the water quality impacts of leaving it on the ground?
Speaker 5:So runoff is the biggest thing that we look at in terms of pet waste, especially at the district. So any rain event really is going to wash away that fecal matter into our storm drains or, even worse, straight into natural waterways. And while the fecal matter may have washed away, it will still leave behind bacteria and parasites that were living in there. Children, avid gardeners, landscaping hobbyists everywhere, beware, just because you don't see it doesn't mean that it's not still there. And so with the runoff there's no treatment for it.
Speaker 5:When that happens, I mean, there's a reason why hikers and like serious campers all carry that portable water filter with them, right, in case they need to drink from natural waterways. They know, they know that they can get sick and that's usually from fecal contamination. The bacteria and the parasites that live in many dogs are going to be a little bit more dangerous to people, especially children and especially other dogs, right? Because while not all bacteria or parasites are going to affect you, know you or I, because we have defense systems in place, like I don't know how familiar well you guys are the dog owners, right? So you guys, I'm sure are all familiar with Parvo.
Speaker 2:What's that?
Speaker 5:Canine Parvo virus.
Speaker 4:It's, there's a pretty low survival rate for it in a lot of dogs. I used to work at an animal shelter and whenever a dog would get parvo we always have them isolated and quarantined because it's super contagious and it really is dangerous. It dehydrates them, causes diarrhea, vomiting, lethargic and things like that.
Speaker 2:They get this from coming in contact with other pet waste.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so it's through dog poop specifically. That's why a specific strain of virus is called the canine parvovirus. So basically it is transferred because dogs really love putting stuff in their mouth and so when they end up consuming another dog's poop that is infected, that virus then multiplies in the host dog's gut and then they waste, and the cycle continues. So the virus specifically thrives in the gut of dogs.
Speaker 3:There is a lot of nitrogen and phosphorus in dog waste and so, in addition to the negative bacteriological impacts, there are nutrient impacts as well to not picking up after your dog and, as we know, nutrients and excessive nutrients can cause algal blooms in Lake Erie and on some of your slower water bodies. One of the other things that I was reading is that you know it would be different if there weren't that many dogs. But I think because so many people own dogs and in some cities like the density is so high like if you go to Chicago or New York, there's just so many dogs Like that level of density, and then you think about Chicago or New York there's just so many dogs Like that level of density and then you think about you know the waste that they produce and if you're not picking up after them and that's all washing into you know your water bodies, it really does add up.
Speaker 2:Here's a factoid from our website.
Speaker 3:Oh okay.
Speaker 2:There are more than 90,000 dogs in Cuyahoga County.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:If each dog poops twice a day.
Speaker 3:That Cuyahoga County. Okay, if each dog poops twice a day, that's too many times.
Speaker 2:No, I'm just kidding. Keep going. That could be more than 45 tons of doggy droppings every day Jiminy Christmas, so that's a lot of poop and bacteria and when it rains that's all washing either into the street sewers or right into the waterways. Right, morgan, can you talk a little bit more about the tracking that you do for bacteria and how that plays into our work here at the sewer district?
Speaker 5:Sure. So at the lab we do fecal bacteria monitoring. Fecal bacteria is a great indicator species. So we specifically utilize E coli and Enterococci in certain circumstances to help us kind of gauge bacterial levels in water. We do that both for our own plants, for the water that they have treated and are putting back out into our natural waterways, but we also monitor beach sites during the recreation season. So with that bacteria monitoring we have analyses. It's called Coal Alert and it uses fluorescence to identify E coli. I mean we get hundreds of samples every month.
Speaker 2:So if there's poop in the water, it glows like a fluorescent color.
Speaker 5:If there's E coli in the water, it'll glow. So E coli is a little bit. It is the more concerning fecal coliform, because while we all have E coli in our own guts, right, Because while we all have E coli in our own guts, right, it's when it comes in contact with any other part of our body that we no longer feel well. So we do monitor E coli specifically, and so that's what the process identifies.
Speaker 2:Well, that's interesting. We have E coli in us, but it doesn't make us sick unless it comes into contact with some other part of our system.
Speaker 5:Yes, so E coli lives in each of our guts, naturally.
Speaker 3:And that's one of the things that we test for when we do the beach sampling is what you're saying, morgan, right? So when we are trying to determine whether or not it's safe to swim at the beach, we do take an E coli sample water sample at the beach every day in the summer and then it takes 24 hours to test and then we'll have that real result you know, about 25 hours later.
Speaker 5:Yes, so we do perform that analysis on samples daily and then we use a predictive model where we input all of this information and not just E coli data. This is all physical parameters of what our WQIS investigators saw when they went to go sample.
Speaker 3:Based on all of that information and the fact that we have so much historical data about E coli at our beaches, we are able to predict water quality for the next day. Really, when we test water coming out of an outfall and if there is E coli, it can help us determine what species that's from. Is that right, that's from? Is?
Speaker 5:that right, it's pretty spot on. So microbial source tracking we are able to find fecal contamination in water sources and then we are tracking what sort of source it's coming from. So I mean we can differentiate between deer, human dogs, raccoons et cetera, et cetera. And so it's just is this human caused? Is it something else? And then that kind of helps us address how to treat it in the future.
Speaker 2:So, Christina, ever since Esri became the face of our pup program.
Speaker 3:World famous. Is it hard having the paparazzi swarm your house every day?
Speaker 4:It's really a struggle. Yeah, yeah, I figure you gotta.
Speaker 2:Don't look out the window, esri. Don't look out the window, don't show your face, don't give them what they want.
Speaker 3:I'm just like picturing Esri with sunglasses on like a large brimmed hat trying to sneak out of the house.
Speaker 4:I do find it a little comical when I'm on a walk, and so there's a person that lives around the block from us that saw our sign and asked for one. So I got her a couple and, as we decided, shortly after they put the sign in their yard, she decided to take a poop right next to the sign. I'm like, okay, I obviously need a picture of this. I mean kind of, yeah, yeah, she's on the sign, pooping right next to it. So I got that.
Speaker 2:The signs are a little aggressive, aren't they? They're really calling people out, calling out offenders, Like look we see you Pick up your poop, you know what I like?
Speaker 3:the ones that just say no, that just are a picture of a dog pooping, and just says, no, I'm like, oh wait, I have some control over my dog, but like Do you feel like you have to walk your dog out into the street? It's pretty yeah.
Speaker 4:Circumnavigate. I have had someone asked to just keep on moving. I'm like I pick it up. They're like no, like they literally were just like no, please don't. I was like okay, like I respect your wishes and I do avoid that house.
Speaker 3:But I could see if you like have kids and your kids play in your yard. Like and your kids play in your yard like not wanting someone to have their dog poop where your kids are playing. I guess that makes sense.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Kids have to come in contact with some bacteria. I think, though, or else Like if they don't go outside the bubble situation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the bubble situation, so they've got to get a little dirty. Where did you go to school? What's your background? What made you interested in the water world?
Speaker 4:So I went to school at Cleveland State University. I went to school at Cleveland State University. I graduated with a bachelor's degree in biology and environmental science. I was looking for careers and I remember through my time there I took a GIS course and they always said, if you want to get into the environmental fields, you really should have a GIS background. It's really valuable. So after Cleveland State, I went to Lakeland Community College and got my certificate in geospatial technology and that's kind of where you know.
Speaker 4:I remember going to Cleveland State and driving past the sewer district building and I was like at first you know, I was a college student, I wasn't paying utilities, right right. I wasn't familiar with this type of work and I looked into what the sewer district was all about and it was like this is exactly what I want to do, like this sounds amazing, like you don't think about all the pipes and everything underground and how it all connects to your daily life and you know the waterways and things like that. So thankfully, the sewer district had the intern position open and I applied and the rest was history. That's great.
Speaker 3:That's awesome. What about you, Morgan?
Speaker 5:I went to school at the University of Dayton and I was originally pre-dental until about halfway through when I had the shocking realization that I simply cannot look in people's mouths for the rest of my career. So I went really broad. At that point I took a summer internship position at the laboratory here at the district. So just a steady movement through the lab. I've enjoyed all of my time here and just got really lucky to have had such a brief introduction, to like what laboratory work is and to just know that it's for me so that's really great.
Speaker 3:I think that's like such a good plug for coming and working at the sewer district, especially for people who are interested in science or maybe want to move around. Like there are internships available at the sewer district and even if you start in one department, you never know you might end up in another department um, similar to how Christina uh move from GIS. Yeah.
Speaker 5:Looking for jobs in science was like intimidating at first, because I'm a bit of an indoor cat myself. Um, so I do like to work inside. I'm not much of a a mud and sweat kind of girly, but to come to the laboratory and find everything I'd been kind of hoping for was just pure luck really.
Speaker 2:It is April and coming up at the end of the month, april 23rd through the 29th, is National Scoop, the Poop. Week Were you aware of this?
Speaker 3:I was not aware of this, never heard of that Corresponds with Earth Day kind of and my birthday Very important.
Speaker 2:I just want to share that. If you're interested in getting your own Pick Up Poop sign, you are able to pick them up at your local city hall, all the city halls within our service area. So that would be Cleveland and 61 neighboring communities. Is that right? 61?, 62?
Speaker 4:I think so. There's 62 total, 63 total.
Speaker 2:Okay, you can also check with Cleveland Metro Parks and your local soil and water conservation district.
Speaker 3:And we have a website.
Speaker 2:And we have a website. If you want to request one directly, you can go to dogscan'tflushorg.
Speaker 3:No apostrophe.
Speaker 2:No apostrophe, dogscan'tflushorg, and you can request a pup sign for your front yard and for your neighbor's front yard.
Speaker 3:You know the sewer district works really hard to reach its communities on a level that is relatable and I think that the pup program is important for that. You know people pay their wastewater fees and stormwater fees and I think that probably if you own a dog, you most likely see one of these signs like every day I know I do when I walk my dog, and so it's just like a good reminder that the work that the sewer district is doing.
Speaker 3:So that's what I think. And then I think the other thing that I found interesting, but I don't have too much of a comment on, is the plastic bags that you use to pick up. Dog waste is then eventually getting landfilled, most likely when you throw your dog waste away, and it's just like so many plastic bags. So so, christina, you look like you might have something to say about this.
Speaker 4:I was just going to make a comment about um. Just because you do buy the bags that maybe are designed to decompose a little quicker, um made of natural products and whatever that may be, um, that does not mean they should not end up in the trash, because I have somebody in my neighborhood that likes to throw them in the shrubs. What yeah?
Speaker 2:I noticed it once. That is next level rudeness.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Throwing food bags in the shrubs.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and when they cleared that back this past fall it kind of exposed a lot of bags that were actually just tossed over into this little wooded area and those bags are still there.
Speaker 2:But this leads to another topic, right? I mean, I'm always thinking about single-use plastics and how much plastic we put in the trash. So here we are encouraging people to pick up after their pets with most likely plastic bags. But is there a natural alternative or is there a concern about the amount of plastic we're putting into the extra plastic we're putting into the landfills with these pet bags?
Speaker 3:I have heard that there's a big push in Portland to just use your hands. I'm totally kidding. Both of you are just staring at me like what that's interesting.
Speaker 2:No, I'm joking, that's amazing. That's really back to nature no.
Speaker 3:No, I don't you know other than like what you were saying, like those bags that are supposedly degrade quicker. I don't really know of other alternatives that are out there.
Speaker 2:Right, because eventually you need the pet waste to go into the landfill. That's the best place for it to end up, right? So it's not washing. Anyway, if anyone has any ideas about a way to address this side concern of plastic bags, please let us know here. Okay, poop bags, lesser of evils. Right, you gotta pick up your poop. I need to do like a round two on this.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you so much for joining us today. Christina and Morgan Loved hearing about your dog, your future dog, morgan. Congratulations on your wedding and also on becoming a dog mom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so much for joining us both of you, christina and Morgan, talking about our pup program and the importance of picking up after your pets.
Speaker 4:Thanks for having us. Thank you so much Arf.
Speaker 5:That was cute.
Speaker 6:Did you know? Eligible customers can save up to 40% on their sewer charges. Learn more about the sewer district's cost-saving programs and use our discount calculator at neorsdorg org. Slash, save or 216-881-8247.
Speaker 1:Clean Water Works is produced by the Communications and Community Relations Department at the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District. Our music was composed and performed by GS Schrey. If you have a question or suggestion, or if you'd like to learn more about the Regional Sewer District, visit neorsdorg or call 216-881-8247.